“Are Christians Losing Rights in America?” Part 2

As promised, Warrioress has provided a list of examples of Christian rights being eroded in the United States at Erosion of Religious Rights in America. Starting with a long list of cases that the ACLU has presented in court on behalf a Christian plaintiff. That list can be found here: ACLU Defense of Religious Practice and Expression.

The warrioress surprised me a bit here, because most conservative Christians I talk to totally despise the ACLU, which is a secularist organization and strong upholder of the separation between church and state. Several of the higher profile cases they take on are actually to defend non-Christians against Christians. For this reason they make a huge point on their website to prove they are not anti-religion, by posting such lists as the one I posted above. The ACLU, which I usually agree with and to which I give a monthly donation, has shown a track record of defending the rights of US citizens of every religion.

In light of all this, I can only see this long list of Christian lawsuits upheld by the ACLU as legitimate Christian (and other religious) rights upheld in the secular court of law, not eroded. So the bulk of her own examples belies the point she was trying to make.

The next example is of a Campus Crusade for Christ group that had difficulty getting approval to organize a group on their campus.

They denied Campus Crusade status as a student group, citing concerns about the group’s leadership, their views on homosexuality and the negative connotations of the word “Crusade.” As a result, student government said that Mark and others with Campus Crusade couldn’t advertise, seek membership, have an office or hold meetings on campus.

source: http://www.ccci.org/ministries-and-locations/ministries/campus-ministry/religious-freedom-attacked.htm

For all I know, this may very well be a legitimate case of discrimination, though a couple of red flags pop out at me. Later in the article it reads:

Across the country, there has been increased pressure on college campuses to quiet Christians about their beliefs. The challenges come on many fronts — restrictions on evangelism, “speech codes” (rules about what to say about sensitive topics like religion or sexual orientation), and about the teaching of evolution as the only acceptable view in science classes.

Which makes me wonder…were they really being blocked from creating an organization because they were harassing fellow students (“restrictions on evangelism”?), and discriminating against homosexuals for membership (which is easily against school policies)? Like I said, it’s possible that this could be religious discrimination, but I’d need to see the school official’s side of the story before making any judgement.

The other college example clearly had the group violating the anti-discrimination policy towards homosexuals. Apparently many colleges don’t consider discrimination based on sexual orientation to be a religious right.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-vanderbilt-university-denying-religious-freedom-to-christian-groups-on-campus/

And even if these are examples legitimate discrimination, would it really be a sign of a larger erosion of Christian rights? After all, just about every college campus in the country has Christian and other religious student groups. But there has also been an amazing surge of atheist and freethought student groups in the past few years, both in high school and in college, yet many of them face severe obstacles in getting the official recognition of their schools for no apparent reason other than their being atheists. The Secular Student Alliance does a great work in getting atheist campus groups started, and helping them when they face the typical obstacles. Many of these stories are not posted online in order to protect the privacy of the students involved, but this summary of the purpose of the SSA states exactly why we need secular clubs to assure that non-theistic students have their rights protected just the same as the religious students.

Here is a specific example I found from earlier this year in a very quick Google search. Southern Illinois University Rejects Atheist Student Group… Then Quickly Backtracks. And there are plenty more where that came from.

Christian rights are not being undermined in this country. They have been losing their accustomed privileges, such as the ability to discriminate against others based on sexual orientation without consequence, as shown above. And when their rights really are being stepped on, they will be defended in the court of law even by a secular organization like the ACLU.

(There was also one other example given, of the guy who was denied a post at the University of Kentucky in part because of his creationist views, but not because he is a Christian. There is a lot to that one, and that was a case I followed as it was unfolding, and it will take up a whole post of it’s own. And I need a break after writing this one, so I will address it later if needed. )

Are Christians Losing Rights in America?

I am in the midst of a very interesting comment conversation at life of a female bible warrioress over the intent of the Founding Fathers regarding the meaning of “Separation of Church and State” and whether or not Christian rights are being eroded in America due to the influence of secularists and atheists. Warrioress has offered to provide some specific examples of Christians being denied their rights. I am skeptical that she will find much of anything that is actual persecution as opposed to the removal of accustomed privilege. And I have a feeling that the examples she gives will be nothing compared to what atheists face in America. But I am trying to be open-minded about it. And curious.

Come and join the conversation if you like @ One Nation Under God.

The conversation continues here: “Are Christians Losing Rights in America?” Part 2

What’s the point of atheist Christmas displays?

‘Tis the season of joy, family, rampant commercialism, and….atheistic Christmas displays? For the past few years, various atheist groups have challenged religious Christmas displays in government buildings by putting up displays of their own. After all, since this is a secular nation, the government is not supposed to show partiality to any religion or philosophy on religion. So, if one group is allowed to have a display, all groups get to have a display.

I first heard of this phenomena with the Freedom From Religion Foundation and their sign commemorating the Winter Solstice and dissing religion in the process.

 I like this sign.

And then there was the Tree of Knowledge put up in West Chester, PA by the Freethought Society. I like this one too, and I seriously do not think there is any reasonable reason why it has now been banned from the courthouse lawn for the second year in a row even though religious displays are still endorsed. It is cheerful, and it’s not even anti-religious, except perhaps for people who think that seeking knowledge outside one’s inherited religious tradition is sacrilege.

Then there is this display, which I sorta understand but I still wonder about its appropriateness…. I do understand, though in a rather cynical way, why this display got lots of press and news attention while all of the other secular/atheistic displays in very same place got scant attention if any at all (I only heard about the other displays in an atheist blog). The person who put this up describes it as a kind of protest against the empty consumerism that has come to characterize so much of Christmas. But surely they know that people get awful upset when you call out the naked emperor in a holiday display, and that most people and most news organizations were just not going to get the point. Instead this seems to have turned into outrage over atheists attacking Christmas than anything else. Not as if the Christian majority doesn’t rage over the nicer atheistic displays anyway (like the Tree of Knowledge above.) But I must say I still have my reservations about this one.

Now, for my part, I think it would be better if Christmas displays just didn’t make an appearance at all on government property. So maybe that is one positive thing about this last display, in that the hubbub from this display may have resulted in all Christmas displays being banned from the county courthouse in Loudoun County, Virginia for this year. This stuff is always much better kept on private property, IMHO.


EDIT: I just have to make a note here, since I discovered well after writing this post, that the skeleton Santa was put up by a Christian. Atheists just got the blame for it. From the First Quarter 2012 American Atheist Magazine article “The War on Christmas:”

As it turns out, the artist who placed the skeleton Santa on the lawn is a Christian. And, as it clearly states on his permit application, this was a commentary on the destruction of Christmas by commercialism–something that both Atheists and Christians generally dislike. The skeleton Santa is still being blamed on the Atheists.

More information can be found here as well: NOVA Atheists Display is now Up.